http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2015-12-10

09:35 <ncopa> kdbus work was initiated due to systemd (I assume)

09:36 <skarnet> not really

09:36 <skarnet> it was initiated because lots of people use D-Bus and found it was slow

09:36 <fabled> i think dbus people wanted it themselves

09:36 <skarnet> (including the authors themselves, yes)

09:36 <ncopa> now, systemd developers feels its obsolete even before it is included in mainline

...

09:37 <skarnet> and they thought "it's slow? then we need to put it in the kernel!"

09:37 <skarnet> not even thinking that it may be slow because they suck at coding

09:37 <skarnet> this bus1 thing is just them throwing a tantrum

09:37 <ncopa> systemd needed dbus to work

09:37 <skarnet> "we didn't get our toy included in the kernel? then we're gonna make a new one"

09:38 <ncopa> but since systemd is pid 1, dbus was not running early enough

09:38 <skarnet> that too

09:38 <skarnet> they don't know how to bootstrap either

09:38 <ncopa> "Kay Sievers"

09:38 <ncopa> the primadonna

09:38 <ncopa> :)

09:39 <ncopa> "Compared to KDBUS, BUS1 doesn't seem to be at least heavily based on D-Bus."

09:39 <skarnet> Red Hat should send those guys back to engineering school instead of paying them a salaty

http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-02-24

21:54 <ncopa> so

21:54 <ncopa> this is a bit fun

21:54 <ncopa> everyone tells you how modular systemd is

21:54 <ncopa> you can replace components

21:54 <coredumb> oh gosh

21:54 <ncopa> its almost like posix

21:54 <coredumb> please

21:55 <coredumb> not systemd

21:55 <ncopa> then when actually trying to do that

21:55 <skarnet> it's actually true: you can replace components. What they're not saying is that said components need to follow the exact same design

21:55 <ncopa> you get: "no its not that simple"

21:55 <skarnet> and they're not saying it because _they don't know_

21:55 <coredumb> a transcript of my conversation on #centos

21:56 <coredumb> me: "Hey, I'd like to know what's the best way to paint my car in red"

21:56 <skarnet> because nobody knows half a shit in software engineering and supports systemd

21:56 <skarnet> *nobody*

21:56 <coredumb> them: "mmmmmh I'm pretty sure you don't want your car being red"

21:56 <ncopa> coredumb: exactly

21:56 <ncopa> "why would you?"

21:56 <coredumb> them: "Why don't you start by telling us _why_ you think you want your car painted red"

21:57 <coredumb> me: "WTF!"

21:57 <skarnet> coredumb: and when you wouldn't get convinced, they called you a hater?

21:57 <coredumb> them: "Well you see, usually people think they want their car red, but actually they need it to be black"

21:58 <coredumb> skarnet: quite

21:58 <coredumb> for the record

21:58 <coredumb> my "car being red" was "how do I run something _last_ with systemd"

21:59 <coredumb> and the solution compared to echo "last command" >> /etc/rc.local

21:59 <coredumb> is nothing like "systemd made Linux easy"

21:59 <coredumb> gosh I really have to blog about it

21:59 <skarnet> why would you do that? I'm pretty sure you don't want to do that. Start by telling us *why* you think it would be useful.

22:00 <coredumb> skarnet: actually I had to go to #systemd and repeat the whole red car again to start getting informations on those damn targets >_<

22:00 <ncopa> yeah. please tell us why you think a red car would be useful

22:01 <coredumb> seriously the ppl on #centos... they must be s*cking RH devs for breakfast to be that lobotomized

22:01 <leo-unglaub> ncopa: your systemd thread is awesome

22:02 <skarnet> coredumb: think about it - a distribution that is just like RedHat, without even the creativity of RedHat

22:02 <skarnet> who do you think works on it

22:03 <coredumb> damn you did put creativity _and_ RedHat in the same sentence :O

22:03 <skarnet> they do have creativity

22:04 <skarnet> they don't have good engineering, but they make stuff. They come up with original, if bad, solutions.

http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-03-11

23:59 <skarnet> jirutka: the estimated time for the *beginning* of the work is towards the end of this year, something like Oct-Nov

23:59 <skarnet> and there will be a whole lot of prep work

http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-03-12

00:00 <skarnet> I want to do things right, with no compromise, and this takes time

00:01 <jirutka> one of things I’m miss in s6 are “soft” service dependencies like after/before in OpenRC

00:02 <skarnet> (to what extent do we take the separation between mechanism and policy? what are our exact needs in terms of dependency management? what does apk provide? if we need something apk doesn't provide, that requires adding stuff to apk first.)

00:03 <skarnet> jirutka: the equivalent of OpenRC is more s6-rc than s6. Is that what you're talking about? (Clarity is important.)