- http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2015-12-10
- 09:35 <ncopa> kdbus work was initiated due to systemd (I assume)
- 09:36 <skarnet> not really
- 09:36 <skarnet> it was initiated because lots of people use D-Bus and found it was slow
- 09:36 <fabled> i think dbus people wanted it themselves
- 09:36 <skarnet> (including the authors themselves, yes)
- 09:36 <ncopa> now, systemd developers feels its obsolete even before it is included in mainline
- ...
- 09:37 <skarnet> and they thought "it's slow? then we need to put it in the kernel!"
- 09:37 <skarnet> not even thinking that it may be slow because they suck at coding
- 09:37 <skarnet> this bus1 thing is just them throwing a tantrum
- 09:37 <ncopa> systemd needed dbus to work
- 09:37 <skarnet> "we didn't get our toy included in the kernel? then we're gonna make a new one"
- 09:38 <ncopa> but since systemd is pid 1, dbus was not running early enough
- 09:38 <skarnet> that too
- 09:38 <skarnet> they don't know how to bootstrap either
- 09:38 <ncopa> "Kay Sievers"
- 09:38 <ncopa> the primadonna
- 09:38 <ncopa> :)
- 09:39 <ncopa> "Compared to KDBUS, BUS1 doesn't seem to be at least heavily based on D-Bus."
- 09:39 <skarnet> Red Hat should send those guys back to engineering school instead of paying them a salaty
- http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-02-24
- 21:54 <ncopa> so
- 21:54 <ncopa> this is a bit fun
- 21:54 <ncopa> everyone tells you how modular systemd is
- 21:54 <ncopa> you can replace components
- 21:54 <coredumb> oh gosh
- 21:54 <ncopa> its almost like posix
- 21:54 <coredumb> please
- 21:55 <coredumb> not systemd
- 21:55 <ncopa> then when actually trying to do that
- 21:55 <skarnet> it's actually true: you can replace components. What they're not saying is that said components need to follow the exact same design
- 21:55 <ncopa> you get: "no its not that simple"
- 21:55 <skarnet> and they're not saying it because _they don't know_
- 21:55 <coredumb> a transcript of my conversation on #centos
- 21:56 <coredumb> me: "Hey, I'd like to know what's the best way to paint my car in red"
- 21:56 <skarnet> because nobody knows half a shit in software engineering and supports systemd
- 21:56 <skarnet> *nobody*
- 21:56 <coredumb> them: "mmmmmh I'm pretty sure you don't want your car being red"
- 21:56 <ncopa> coredumb: exactly
- 21:56 <ncopa> "why would you?"
- 21:56 <coredumb> them: "Why don't you start by telling us _why_ you think you want your car painted red"
- 21:57 <coredumb> me: "WTF!"
- 21:57 <skarnet> coredumb: and when you wouldn't get convinced, they called you a hater?
- 21:57 <coredumb> them: "Well you see, usually people think they want their car red, but actually they need it to be black"
- 21:58 <coredumb> skarnet: quite
- 21:58 <coredumb> for the record
- 21:58 <coredumb> my "car being red" was "how do I run something _last_ with systemd"
- 21:59 <coredumb> and the solution compared to echo "last command" >> /etc/rc.local
- 21:59 <coredumb> is nothing like "systemd made Linux easy"
- 21:59 <coredumb> gosh I really have to blog about it
- 21:59 <skarnet> why would you do that? I'm pretty sure you don't want to do that. Start by telling us *why* you think it would be useful.
- 22:00 <coredumb> skarnet: actually I had to go to #systemd and repeat the whole red car again to start getting informations on those damn targets >_<
- 22:00 <ncopa> yeah. please tell us why you think a red car would be useful
- 22:01 <coredumb> seriously the ppl on #centos... they must be s*cking RH devs for breakfast to be that lobotomized
- 22:01 <leo-unglaub> ncopa: your systemd thread is awesome
- 22:02 <skarnet> coredumb: think about it - a distribution that is just like RedHat, without even the creativity of RedHat
- 22:02 <skarnet> who do you think works on it
- 22:03 <coredumb> damn you did put creativity _and_ RedHat in the same sentence :O
- 22:03 <skarnet> they do have creativity
- 22:04 <skarnet> they don't have good engineering, but they make stuff. They come up with original, if bad, solutions.
- http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-03-11
- 23:59 <skarnet> jirutka: the estimated time for the *beginning* of the work is towards the end of this year, something like Oct-Nov
- 23:59 <skarnet> and there will be a whole lot of prep work
- http://irclogger.com/.alpine-devel/2016-03-12
- 00:00 <skarnet> I want to do things right, with no compromise, and this takes time
- 00:01 <jirutka> one of things I’m miss in s6 are “soft” service dependencies like after/before in OpenRC
- 00:02 <skarnet> (to what extent do we take the separation between mechanism and policy? what are our exact needs in terms of dependency management? what does apk provide? if we need something apk doesn't provide, that requires adding stuff to apk first.)
- 00:03 <skarnet> jirutka: the equivalent of OpenRC is more s6-rc than s6. Is that what you're talking about? (Clarity is important.)
skarnet on systemd and s6 plans