1. [6/30/2018, 2:48:42 PM] JeiLooseArrow: @Hālian I’d imagine there’s a similar sort of inherent polygamous system as the maahesians here, within the safir society, since the safir have similar sexual skew?
  2. [6/30/2018, 2:52:20 PM] Hālian: Indeed, or polyamorous
  3. [6/30/2018, 2:53:59 PM] Archeoraptor38: arent all safir female
  4. [6/30/2018, 2:55:36 PM] JeiLooseArrow: (The LONG lifespans of the safir would cause problems though— you’d have major overpopulation issues, unless there was hella high youth death rates and super low birth rates, which also means very low sexual drive. Though, it’d seem you implement female homosexuality a lot which would not only help but make sense— it’s biologically non-reproductive so could be an inherent way to control population. Not sure if homosexual tendencies/tolerances would transfer over to the males though... but maybe it would some, since again, it’s nonreproductive and with those outrageous lifespans, they’d need to do everything they can to keep birthrates low to avoid overpopulation)
  6. Safir are 25:5:6 female:futanari:male, with the former two sexes (collectively referred to as "femmes") capable of facultative parthenogenesis, who live for approximately 450 local (562 Earthly) years.
  7. [6/30/2018, 3:00:06 PM] Archeoraptor38: are they fertile their whole life
  8. [6/30/2018, 3:01:48 PM] Hālian: Reproductive age for safir is from around 15-20 (19-25) to around 320 (400); male safir (incl. the male aspect of herms) are fertile year-round, while femmes become receptive in the local winter.
  9. [6/30/2018, 3:02:56 PM] Hālian: (…hmm, not sure if their lifespan should be 450/560 local/Earthly years or 360/450. Probably ought to be the latter.)
  10. [6/30/2018, 3:03:22 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Ok, I know this is a fantasy concept so isn’t supposed to be super science grounded, but I confess a lot of it still makes me cringe cuz feels very implausible. But. I will do my best to restrain from trying to force my kind of realism on them.
  11. However.
  12. I actually see there being tons of potential with the species, I honestly think it CAN be made super realistic but still maintain a lot of what you imagine for it!
  13. Will also probably have to lose a lot too, but I think the most important parts can be kept and justified with some work.
  14. [6/30/2018, 3:03:35 PM] Hālian: Do tell
  15. [6/30/2018, 3:08:12 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Alright. So the craziest part feels like the lifespan (we don’t know of any animals that live that long on average here on Earth, so you gotta wonder). But, I can let that go, it just means more adaptations to things like sexual cycles.
  16. If they’re going to naturally live for centuries (without it being some technological artificial anti-aging tech), then makes most sense that they probably also take much longer to reach sexual maturity, and then either aren’t reproductive for long, or have long infertile phases. Cuz again, if they’re living hundreds of years and able to reproduce for most of that, it’s hard to imagine each of them not having thousands of children over their lifetimes, which means major major population problems.
  18. Slowing down the rate at which they reach reproductive ability (taking longer to become sexually mature), and slowing down the sexual drive in general or doing things like homosexuality to keep from producing as many offspring, would help.
  19. [6/30/2018, 3:09:30 PM] Dragonslayer Gemstar: I have been reading and have an example from earth that may be of assistance, Greenland sharks are capable of living 400 to 500 if not more years, and take almost 100 years to reach sexual maturity
  20. [6/30/2018, 3:09:55 PM] JeiLooseArrow: It’s just awkward cuz biology would typically favor the species that can produce the most offspring.
  22. ^ awesome, exactly, perfect Gem!
  23. [6/30/2018, 3:10:26 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Basically, the safir are reasonable, we just gotta find ways to keep them from overpopulating lol
  24. [6/30/2018, 3:10:30 PM] Hālian: Indeed
  25. [6/30/2018, 3:11:05 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Putting them on a heat cycle would definitely help. Maybe make it longer than 1yr though, maybe more like a decade or more.(edited)
  26. [6/30/2018, 3:11:19 PM] Hālian: Could do
  27. [6/30/2018, 3:11:54 PM] Hālian: Also, it's been heavily insinuated through RP that bisexuality, if not natural for femme safir, is the social norm (the subject has yet to be broached with a male safir character)
  28. [6/30/2018, 3:13:12 PM] Archeoraptor38: natural and social norm can be opposites
  29. [6/30/2018, 3:13:32 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Basically, if they live longer than humans, their whole life cycle should be stretched out more too. So kinda like how cats & dogs live and die quickly by our standards, humans would seem the same way to the safir.
  30. [6/30/2018, 3:13:40 PM] Hālian: Definitely
  31. [6/30/2018, 3:15:39 PM] JeiLooseArrow: But then it only takes 6months for a cat to be able to reproduce, while it takes more like 10-15yrs for a human. So yeah, maybe make it so safir aren’t truly adult or reproductive til 100 or so. Males probably become reproductive earlier, since they’re fewer and there’s less to it honestly.
  32. [6/30/2018, 3:16:24 PM] JeiLooseArrow: (Just a suggestion, exact ages and everything is negotiable of course)
  33. [6/30/2018, 3:17:33 PM] Hālian: I would be amenable to shifting the age of physical maturity were it not for the fact that doing so would require retconning years of RP and the existence of several characters. :smile:
  34. [6/30/2018, 3:17:47 PM] Hālian: Nobody said, however, that societal maturity had to happen at the same time. Or something like that.
  35. [6/30/2018, 3:20:11 PM] Hālian: (that said, in hindsight, I think I should have made them physically mature later.)(edited)
  36. [6/30/2018, 3:21:52 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Also, idk how much you had figured out about their origin planet or their evolutionary history, but we can work with you to try and explain why they look so human yet have extra arms :grin:
  37. For example, they probably had similar evolutionary origins to humans (at some point were arboreal), but came from a hexopodal ancestor and that might mean also having higher oxygen content in the planet’s atmosphere since more limbs means more muscle means more energy requirement. Either that, and/or they might have bigger lungs too...
  38. Slightly lower gravity could also help explain their larger heights, and the somewhat top-heavy anatomy with those extra arms— the weight distribution /high center of gravity wouldn’t be as much an issue when there’s lower gravity and less weight :wink:
  39. [6/30/2018, 3:23:31 PM] Hālian: Safir are known not to be native to Daia or Lessa; their history books bear witness to arrival on those worlds by outright colonization (Lessa) and a crash landing (Daia). Both of those worlds have slightly lower gravity than Earth.
  40. [6/30/2018, 3:27:28 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Ooh, excellent! :smile:
  41. That works well then. Ok.
  43. And I totally understand the frustration of retconning rp, I really do. I strongly encourage you to consider that though, over keeping the species maturing at human rates. But, I’m always biased towards the bio realism and always choose that over editing a few number details lol. (If you were willing to retcon and wanted help trying to rework story, I’m more than happy to assist! I consider myself kinda good at that lol)
  44. [6/30/2018, 3:34:21 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Also. I want to acknowledge that unrealistic wish-fulfillment in characters and species has its place. I respect it so long as it’s acknowledged as such. But I personally value realism so will always be biased towards such concepts, and encourage people to push for more science plausibility in all things.
  45. And it’s not just because I think more realistic is better, or at least not purely for the sake of it being realistic, but I’ve also found that when you make a character and species more plausible, that actually opens up even more opportunities for stories and exploration. For example, take the safir here — safir are humanlike in appearance enough as to be attractive to humans, and maybe they can also be attracted TO humans. But if they live at different rates with different lifespans, now you have some prime drama story material, that you don’t have if they’re aging in sync.
  46. Similarly, whatever biological differences they do have, not to mention the inevitable cultural differences, gives even more things to explore, avenues to build stories around. :slight_smile:
  47. [6/30/2018, 3:41:28 PM] Hālian: Indeed.
  48. [6/30/2018, 3:42:06 PM] Hālian: Safir, generally speaking, don't age between physical maturity and cessation of fertility, but that's equal parts both columns; additionally, xenophilia is not unheard of.(edited)
  49. [6/30/2018, 3:43:53 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Makes sense, cuz the same could be said about humans kinda too :joy: (visible aging usually correlates with lower fertility/virility)
  50. [6/30/2018, 3:46:07 PM] Hālian: One biological feature of theirs that I think might could also be interesting worldbuilding, if not story, fodder is their ability to interbreed, and produce hybrid offspring, with a number of other sapient species — to me it seems to point towards an unnatural origin, especially considering their non-nativity to what they consider to be their home worlds.
  51. [6/30/2018, 3:48:17 PM] JeiLooseArrow: Ah yes, I was going to ask about that!
  52. Indeed, if they can interbreed, that indicates the species have common evolutionary heritage, and ideally rather close. So you’d probably have to use some panspermia/seed-theory and likely also some ancient-astronaut type intervention, but then it’s conceivable.
  53. [6/30/2018, 3:49:10 PM] Hālian: Yeah. Of course, to hear a number of safir tell it, such is proof of their gods being the real deal.
  54. [6/30/2018, 4:14:22 PM] Hālian: An alternate idea I have is that femme safir are infertile by default, and male safir have to do Something (likely psychic) to make their mates receptive; perhaps there is some herb or something that is harvested in certain winters and enhances safir's psychic powers in Just The Right Way. To do: nail down specifics.
  55. [6/30/2018, 4:17:47 PM] Hālian: Another alternative is that femme safir don't ovulate until inseminated, and while the appearance is of femme safir coming into heat, that it might well actually be the males who are rising, the responses of potential mates driven by a telepathic feedback loop.